Helping One Another

I'm sure I'm not alone in finding that recently players are more and more having to look outwith the faction for help, particularly with bosses. This automatically leads to the question, "Well what is the point of being in the faction?".

I raise this issue because my worry would be that players become frustrated and end up leaving, looking for somewhere else where help is forthcoming.

I guess we have 2 choices, firstly anyone agreeing, disagreeing or just wanting to air an opinion can do so, we work through it and hopefully find a solution, or secondly we do nothing and just see how things go.

There are a number of players in faction who genuinely need the help of our higher levels and recently are finding this hard to come by. In our situation, Blackie can tank several bosses we would face, but not all, therefore as soon as karn is offline or busy we are completely stuck and unable to move quests forward.

Day after day just now I see people asking for help, some people will offer but as often as not, someone who can tank is missing. Requests for help on faction chat are just being ignored.

No-one can be forced into anything or to play a certain way, I completely understand that. I do believe that all of us, especially our highest levels all need to evaluate the following:

-What we hope to get from the game
-What we hope to give to the game
-Do we want to see Rhythm grow or your character grow

There is no right or wrong answer but to see Rhythm grow all of us need to look at helping those lower level than ourselves. Of course the ideal solution is for both to grow and that can be done, but it's really in everyones interests to get all our members as high level as possible.

All of the above is purely my impression of what is happening and I could be way off the mark. I don't want to leave Rhythm, I don't think anyone does really, but if we are getting (or feel we are getting) stonewalled then what option do we have when it comes to looking for help.

Please take this post as a plea to remember us mid-levels and lower and let's get this out in the open and talked about.

I'm not looking to piss people off or anything, I want to see a solution that keeps us all in Rhythm and making it stronger and even better.

Many factions are facing this problem. Part of the problem is lower levels are under the impression that you need "high level" ___ to take out __. This is not the case. The only bosses you NEED a higher level tank are Jewelscalen and Eyes of Krimson, both of which are doable with a level 60 barb (63 or 65 for Krimson).

As I have heard others point out in other factions, the first wave of players had no higher levels to rely on. We had to learn to take them out ourselves. Higher levels are not being greedy or down-right ignoring lower levels just because they can. We want you to learn too. It's bad enough we do your FuBens for you. That's what it boils down to:

"Do my boss for me."

We love you guys who feel unloved, ignored or hurt. We want you to grow stronger than the populance that wants things done for them. Learn to kite. Learn about all aggro. Learn to pull. Learn each and every classes strengths and weaknesses. If it means going outside the faction, then do it. We had to. We still do.

Do not take our love for granted is all I ask.

First off, this is my opinion. While I agree with you to a point Xoria, I think we have 2 issues here. Nobody wants to constantly help lazy players, holding their hands all the time, but I think this is more about established players asking for help when they truly need it. I always ask the faction for help first, but not for everything.

I don't expect help the instant I ask and I know people will help if they can. If they can't at that time, I do other things, but I think the willingness is not there as much as it has been in the past and that may be the true issue. If you, and other high level players, feel that there is too much "hand-holding" going on, I can understand that, but I truly feel that most of the mid-level people (50+) that have been with Rhythm for a while do not ask for help for everything they need. I understand that everyone has things they need to get done, whether it is FBXX or world quest.

I also understand that each boss does not need a level 83 ( ) tank, but each new boss I have faced I could not solo. Whether it is Kong, Slitt, Slither, etc., each one needs more than one person and it is the natural (well, for me anyway) reaction to ask the people you know and trust for a hand, especially if they have been there and know what to do.

I help when I can and appreciate help when I truly need it. Most of the people in Rhythm, IMO, don't take the help for granted. If they do, they do not deserve it. Let's at least, as Dok suggested, discuss it.

My two cents.

Okay......... time for my two cents.

First of all, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of a faction to help each other grow, to have fun and to enjoy the game? To make friends? That's what I assume they are for, but who knows? I could be wrong.

It IS just a game.... Please keep it that way, drama is for the movies.

Next, I only ask for help when it is needed, and I help anyone I can, sometimes I don't wait to be asked because I remember my lower levels and how frustrating they could be. Yes, I want to level, but I'm not above helping someone else get to the place they want to be, even if it means they surpass me. And if I ask if you wanna come grind with me, it's not because I need help, it's because I'm bored. Or if other people around my level have the same quests, sometimes then I'll ask if they wanna squad.

Another thing, realize that just because some of you are experienced, practiced gamers, does not mean we all are. I've only played this type of game a total of maybe.... a year and that was with a year and a half off. I've only been playing pw since December. I'm still learning, but I like to think everyone is trying to help, not hinder that learning, but lately... it feels like the latter.

I am pissed off, I am hurt and I am disappointed. I have heard many times, "if you need help please ask". Well, I did. A few people did. And now, I hear "oh... I'm doing wq" or "I don't feel like it" or "find someone else to do it". And the "we had to do it ourselves" thing, is not only rude, it is downright ridiculous. I understand you had to figure these things out for yourselves. And you understand how frustrating, tiring and maybe even disheartening it was. But do you really have to have a "I was put through hell so you should be too" attitude? That is not only mean it is immature.


You guys know me. You know I try to keep peace and I enjoy playing with you all. I like each of you, all for different reasons. I like Dok for his wit and keeping me in line by picking on me from time to time. I like Karn for being so helpful and kind to damn near everyone he meets. I like Elf for being a funny kid, with a heart of gold, just to name a few.

But right now, as I said, I am pissed off and I don't care anymore if someone gets mad at me for saying my piece. I am tired of the cattiness, I am tired of the rudeness, I am tired of the hypocrisy I've seen recently and I am tired of not feeling like I want to be in the group anymore. I for one, don't feel that it's wrong for people to ask for help with bosses. I just don't. And especially not FB's. They were made for group, and they were made for people to help you, whether they're same level or above. If you feel like I'm wrong, by all means, tell me. But..... I'm tired of silently standing by, or venting to other people who feel the same way. Because we need things to change. I am still very close to leaving faction and probably quitting pw altogether because this is just plain dumb. And for those who wanna know, these reasons are pretty much why Ambersky is no longer in the faction, along with Sanion.

And yeah, if I feel that strongly about it, I probably should quit playing. But I genuinely like the people I play with, and would rather continue to play.

... dang... im missing a lot..... This is one of the things im afraid would happen to us if we grow too fast....

... We're too cool!!! lol just kidding...

... what i meant was these kind of problems.... "the help me" problem
... Well im not here to throw in an opinion , coz i dont want to mess things up... as i said i missed a lot already but...... i do wana say something, all i want to say is... guys just keep it cool... relax... take a deep breath... all our feelings are connected here, a small ripple can make a tsunami of anger... if we lose our cool... Having heard of ambersky leaving or left???? already deals a devastating blow to me
... I know you guys have been through a lot lately coz i can feel the tension going on here and these things happens... But were all family here, we all love games and a little bit of drama(I think some do)... if we all care for each other lets try to understand each and everyone, lets not jump on conclusions dat the higher lvls are not helping us or, the lower lvls are being bothersome coz they keep asking for help
or becoz some stupid kid who lost his internet connection and cant play PWI started saying stuff he doesnt understand just to feel that he is part of the family:(, make us do bad decisions that will affect not only us but the whole faction...
... We have gone through a lot... together... so please... let not a problem in a game break us all a part....




P.S. By the way please let me use the "We" word... coz i really want to feel that i still belong here..... if thats ok???

Yes, people do need to calm down. Nor am I saying that the attitude is "go through hell because I did." The attitude is "stop relying on higher levels because we KNOW you are much better than those ABUSING them." I am not a hypocrit. I said I'd help. I do. I burn my charm for helping. I'll lose 100k experience or more upon death and only gain back 10k.

However, asking someone to do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE is the immature part of it all. What do you think we are doing? Seriously twiddle our thumbs and laughing at you? We meaning those deemed "high level" and you meaning "lower levels". No. It's not easy for someone, like me, a cleric, in the middle of a zhen to say "Yeah, I need to stop BBing and let your scrolls tick off because someone needs a boss done that can be done with someone who needs it at their level."

THAT is what I'm trying to point out. Yes, it is understood you'd like to do them. I've waited a month to get a boss done. Why? No one needed it done that I ran into until right there. Yes, a faction is to have fun, mess around, help each other, the whole shabang. Do you guys understand how hard it can be to find a squad that doesn't gip US out of drop when we do TT? Do you realize it can take HOURS to both find the right squad and then to complete it smoothly?

I'm not saying this to be a bitch. I'm saying this because I hear "listen to me; I want it now; I want it done by you and I will be pissy if it's anything otherwise." That's immaturity right there, by the way. I hear you guys. Been there myself. It was hard as hell for me to find a squad for Silver Frost. I know HOW frustrating it is.

The difference: I accept the fact that __ is not available. I understand I have to go outside the faction because it's common courtesy to, say, not pull __ from doing something like WQ. That alone can take forever.

Just please, as I asked, don't abuse "high levels." Have patience with them, yourself, and gathering squads. If you can't, what can I say?

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF ABUSING HIGH LEVEL: Myself while still in Legendary, basically the same thing you guys are doing if you replace resurrecting someone with a boss. "Xoria, come res me at Misfortune?" Fine. Res. "OMG! I NEED REZ AT TUSK TOWN. XORIA?!" Finefine. "Crap, I died at 1k streams, need cleric." Only cleric on. Res. Spent cash, time and god knows what else to help others. This is how I fell behind levels with people I was/is close friends with. I should be mid 80s. However, I lost all that time. For what? People wanted level 10 Resurrection.

To ask someone to do this is ridiculous; more so than throwing a fit and rage- quitting your family. Also, Dok, impression is a bit off; no one is at a stand-still unless they allow it. If anything, this should be a plea to realize that same levels can help each other.

EDIT: And please remember this before reply: http://rhythms.roleplaylife.net/casual-f3/freestyle-it-t12-30.htm#815

I thought I should come on here and clear a few things up so nobody was left wondering "why did Ambersky leave?"

It comes down to this. Rhythm is not what it used to be or what it was meant to be in my opinion. What I mean by that is we were a fun, friendly, helpful faction. Lately what I see is that the fun is still there most of the time and MOST people are still friendly, but the helpful part is far from where it needs to be.

One thing I do want to say that really aggravated me is that Xoria said "It's bad enough we do your FuBens for you." like letting you do our FB's is for our benefit. People in the faction jump at the opportunity and some even seek out FB's to do. So fine.. DON'T go on anyone's FB. Leave a spot for someone who want's easy exp, spirit, and reputation.

Was it hard for the "first" wave of players. Hell yes and I wish I was there to suffer through that with you, but that is WHY we made a faction. So that we don't all have to go through that frustration. Everyone knows me, I don't ask for help very often and it is never for a quest that I can handle myself or that I can find a group to do. I ask for help when I truly need it like in this instance for Kong. And I know people are busy in game or not everyone is online to help so I am patient. The fact is Elaziah and Ambersky both needed Kong for a week and nobody would help. The only people that offered were incapable of doing it. We needed a tank. You might say a week wasn't long enough to wait to kill one boss but it wasn't the fact that we waited a week to get help. The point is that we asked for help for a week and we didn't get any offers. Not even "well I can do it on _ day cause I'm busy now". And it's not like we needed Ronin or Karnage, all we needed was any barbarian or blade master in their mid 60's. But no one offered to help. Not at the time or ever. People who I thought were my friends were blowing me off because they didn't want to do it. It's not like we were only online for a few minutes and had to do it 'right now'. We tried to be patient but it didn't help.

People join factions to be part of something bigger than themselves. So they have a place to turn to when they have a question or need help with something. Even if that help is just advice on where to look for a group. But how in the hell do you expect your faction to get stronger if you wont help your members get there. I can't believe the attitude of the faction is recruit at 18+ but don't help them level up. Rhythm will never get stronger with that attitude.

I feel like I'm starting to ramble so I'll end this by saying that the reason that I left Rhythm is because it isn't a faction. At this point it's a glorified chat room with it's own forum. I made a lot of great friends and I will miss you very much. Keep in touch and if you need the help of a 64+ Venomancer let me know and I'll still help out when I can. I'll see you in game.

Stop, no more finger pointing.

I don't care who's who and what's what. We have different opinions on these things and outlooks. Yes we are among the first wave of players. Yes we suffered waited weeks to months to do bosses. And yes I would like to believe that we would like to try to help you do your bosses etc etc.

2nd waves, 3rd waves what ever waves you may be. Unlike the first wave don't have the luxury of having that many high levels to help. FINE.

That was frustation yes. Not at you all. At myself.

Ok I could have been a bit more helpful, co-operative. Do I like to help? Yeah sure, if I can. Do I all the time? Honestly?

No.

I wish I could say yes. I really do, but I guess it's a no. Have I seen a lack in performance in our higher levels? Yeah I have. I doubt it's because they don't care, but rather they have other issues to deal with. Or so I'd like to believe. I'm not going to lie here, I do wish sometimes the lower level could just take over the faction and kick all of us higher levels out.

I know there are hard working members out there who always tries to tank, and help; we all appreciate that as a faction, and friend.

So what happened? What has changed so suddenly in the past few weeks?

I don't know, I've seen some members shot up in levels like Old Faithful, and are close to surpassing me. Did that give me the sense and illusion that the faction was now self-sustainable? Yeah it did. More people entered the 60s, more about to in the 70s. I'm still-standing in levels, for weeks. I won't and can't speak for the other members, but I felt like the mantle could be passed on.

Was I tired of tanking? Not that I could tank much. Or doing TTs, or FBs? Well TTs I try to avoid, FBs, I kind of grown to hate it unless you guys were in it too. Yeah just a bit. But I'm tired of playing this game in its entirety. I don't even think I go on to play anymore. More rather just be around with you.

I have flaws, I make a lot of mistakes, I'm ignorant as much as I try to be. If you all leave, and some of you have because of this. Then I really have to question myself.

I can tell you reasons why I didn't respond, why I didn't help, why I didn't do anything. Yeah I got a lot of valid reasons. Mid-terms, financial strains, moving, classes, stress, and all that life wrap; Just came on to relax. But then again, isn't that why we're all here? Not just in this faction but this game?

A lot of issues have been raised up recently, many directed about me personally, or me involving someone else. But that was something I could handle. At least... but now it's a grouping that involves me in it. I can tell you, as hard as I try in the end I feel like I don't have enough rope to pull my weight or behaviour around here. I'm blowing off some steam yeah... Do I have a solution? No not really.

There's only four ways this can work out, and we all know what it is.

1. The higher-levels co-operate more.
2. The lower-levels are forced to learn things the hard way.
3. The higher-levels and lower-levels BOTH collaborate, and distribute bosses according to abilities with an UNDERSTANDING that if it's a necessity, it should be done soon, if not perhaps in the vague future.
4. The lower-levels go outside for help, joining a new faction or finding a squad.

Which do I like the most? Actually I think we all could go for number 3 can't we? With perhaps a combo with number 1 directed to me, but that's just my taste.

Is this a plea for understanding? I don't know, but a promise to you all? No, I can't promise that. But this is acknowledgment that now I know, without a doubt you all are getting as irked as I hoped you weren't going to be.

To sum it up? I've been a bad member, no doubt about it. I've lacked in performance in every possible way. Do I hold a grudge to any of you who feels a bit of resentment to how I am? No, I don't because I'd be pissed off at me if I was in your position. Yes, higher levels loses an unnecessary amount of exp to lower levels, all the time. You lower levels aren't so low now, perhaps we [or just I] thought that now, you can take care of yourselves, with the bosses and all.

Also to those who are just bored at times. I'm sorry to hear that, but I completely understand.

There is only one thing, that I resent most about this. Not this issue, but the movement of it all. That it's becoming just like every other faction now. Drama blah blah blah, Best in PW blah blah blah. I'm lost in my torrent of thoughts. I don't know where my point was.

Maybe it was, I just want you all to know, that I know you know I know. I say that with a straight face, there is no hint of humour or comedic satire in any form on this piece.

So what will happen to Rhythm? I don't want it to be the shell of past praises. I guess the chant "one of us" is just not enough. This is something you all need to discuss about. I know I'm going to try a bit harder. Not because you brought up the issue and I'm trying to compensate of my poor attendance. Ok maybe I am, but I hope I'm doing it to reopen that feeling of why I'm in Rhythm. And that's because of you guys.

I'm done here, it's long I know, why? So the more you read, the less time there is to type. I don't want any sympathy of anyone saying "I have been a good member stop beating myself." [Though I do wish you'd think that ahaha oh ok I can't stay serious too long.] But I do want you all, to THINK AND CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY.

I don't want this to escalate into personal attacks. Because then I can't help but to not just question myself, but you guys too. And I know we're all on the same side. We're closer than most factions. The only factions closer than us are the ones who are for conjoined twins and blood ties.

It's ok to get off on each other's nerves sometimes, we're like family. I just want you all, to be careful in how you say things, and word things. You may give off the wrong impression even if you didn't mean to. I don't want anyone hurt, or sad or angry or pissing off cliffs with someone I like under it.

Tired yet? Yeah I am too... the TRUE meaning of Rhythm, is you all. That's all I know about this faction. What that meaning is, really all of you to mold and change, it's a home for us. Not a service office, not a store. You all can move around, change things, make comfort, punch Inferno in the gonads [no I'm kidding, he didn't get his gonads back], but ultimately, you all, high or low, sober or drunk, lonely or loved, dumb or witty, dumb and witty, dead or alive; You've all made it a home, and anywhere else I can't say, is as comforting.

With Lagalosting Love,
~Ely

RHYTHM !!!

Listen to the old man. Please stop bickering, stop the drama.... We will weather this little storm. It's unfortunate that we had to face this but I suppose it was inevitable. I remember when I was in ShockWave the same blow up happened.

We all need help and ask for it, but we also all seem to forget the help received in the past.

Something that has bubbled in my brain lately was the pride I was feeling in the faction for getting everyone their TT60 weapon almost immediately upon that person gaining level 60 !! AWESOMENESS !!! Those are completely thankless runs except you just really made that person better at the game. Good job on that !

Bosses.. what a total pain in the ass, and a constant thorn in everyone's side. I hope everyone can plainly see the rift? It's staring us in the face, the people who are of "lower" (in quotes cuz the gap is lessening) level feel like they are being ignored by the "higher" levels. And the "higher" levels feel that their efforts are un-appreciated and taken for granted by the "lower" levels.

We all need to cool our jets, and realize, this little issue is just a little issue. Lets think of it a bit rationally.

Why would anyone consider leaving a faction that up until this particular month has been awesome, I mean, is that all the faction is worth to you? A few boss kills? And are people gonna jump ship the moment things aren't roses and icecream?

Consider this also, we have some "higher" levels who wanna leave the faction because they feel OVERWORKED !! They can't find the joy in the game. Constantly worried that people are gonna get mad and leave the faction if they don't drop what they are doing and help.

This is a fairly high stress situation for us all. It sucks feeling like you are responsible for the happiness of the whole faction, and that saying no to helping will cause others to be angry at you, and leave the faction. And it sucks feeling like people simply don't WANT to help you.

I think that looking outside the faction for help is not only necessary sometimes, but very very good for a player to do. That way you can cultivate a web of people that you know and trust outside of the faction. Getting too faction centric is not a healthy way to play the game.

This faction is so much more helpful than many that I have been in, even at the worst it's better than most factions best !!

So, I think everyone needs to step back and look at what has been done for them and be appreciative, and we all need to be a bit more responsive. Be honest too, if you only logged on to do CS and WQ then by all means feel comfortable saying, "i'm just on to do daily's then I gotta log"... that's except able. But, give a time table perhaps.. "hey, i'm only on for another hour or so, how about on Sunday you work on getting a group together and we'll do XXXXX boss".

Here is my real solution:

Organize. Use the forums, lets set up a section for boss kills only, and there we can set teams for certain days for certain bosses. such as:

Example only: MintJulip............Kong.............Sunday 5:00pm Mountain time
Please sign up if you can make it: Blacksider, Karina, XesKargo, Gosuke, Karnival, Minty.

Odds are fairly good that others need this boss done as well, the more we get in one swipe the better.

We are oddly enough faced with a strange situation... more clerics than tanks... odd don't you think?

Be patient, be helpful, have fun.. I try to play the game with this mantra in heart.

Lately, I have been very focused on a certain goal, this goal when I attain it will "I think" help the faction out immensely, and take the burden off of other players a bit. Until i reach this large goal however that is where most of my playtime is spent... I also have college to deal with and it is taking time, so, I have a set schedule of when I can play PW. It's a couple hours here, and a couple hours there; if it takes me an hour to kill a boss well, that's most of my playing time for the day gone. MintJulip is now leveling at a rate of 2 levels a week, I get a total of 2 quests per level that don't even give 5%...... I can't imagine what it's like in the 70's and 80's.

Another thing to consider, is, people who are now in their 60's have reached somewhat the level of higher levels not being able to really help singly anymore... I mean, Kong and Krimson take a full on group to do, Rina can't waltz up to it and kill it.... you are now the higher level.... think about it like that..... For all intensive purposes you have caught up, you are facing what Ely, Ronin, Xoria, Twixie, hita and everyone else faces..... just think about it, what do they do in that situation... they find a way to kill the damn thing, and joke and laugh about it in faction chat.

This is long, sorry, but, it was really upsetting that this even became an issue. I don't like finger pointing and I don't like feeling responsible for the happiness of others. WTH fun is a game with no challenge anyway?!

Lets set up a boss kill day, lets remember what others have done for us, and lets remember the help we needed in the past. Oh and lets remember that we can ALL help, it's not up to 5 highest levels to do everything.

Peace !!
Me

So far, on the whole, some good points have been made.

I definitely want to claify that I and others are VERY grateful for help received in the past and don't take it for granted. I still remember Ely tanking Chin and Dismal for me one after the other when I would have been happy just to get one out of the way.

Perhaps one of the difficulties we face is, as MJ said, we have more clerics than tanks. As I think I said in my original post, it is often the tank position that is missing.

Today was fun though, Firehouse needed Slither and Quillhog King, and I needed Manta and Slitt. We got a squad containing both of us along with Ely, Elaziah and Elefore and worked our way down the Eastern side of the world, from Slither to Quillhog. It went well and was a good, efficient way to do it, thanks to all involved.

MJ made a good point about maybe using the forums a little more for a boss help section. This does of course mean that we all check in on this section and also make newcomers aware of it.

Some of the responses have also been a little wide of the mark. Sure people of the same level can help each other, but if those needing the help are, for example, a cleric and 2 veno's, surely you can understand when we ask for someone to help who can (with healing) stand up to the boss.

The subject and posts were also not intended as drama, bickering or bitchiness. None of us are children and it is far better to be able to talk and work these things through than have them festering away under the surface.

No-one is looking for an excuse to leave the faction, but my reason for joining a faction is to get to know and trust a group of people. These people are then the ones who you help and who help you. You go on missions with them because you trust each other to play fair with the drops etc. Just last week Blackie was telling us how he had to stop TTing with a group of "friends" because they didnt share the drops. The faction is important to us for that reason. I want to be in a faction with my friends and those I trust, if that group continually becomes a group of people who are with a different faction then, for me, the likelihood is that I would go join them. Similarly if that group is from Rhythm then I have no need to go looking elsewhere.

Anyway, each group of high levels has its own "help issues". Tanks are always required, then there are other times a good veno is needed for luring etc while once a cleric has rez 9 or 10 they are going to be in demand and asked to travel to wherever the casualty is. We will all have things that annoy us or we feel we can't be bothered with at certain times, but hopefully things can improve from here on